How Australian Documentarians Matthew Salleh and Rose Tucker Found Slices of the American Dream in Former Pizza Huts

In the late 60s, a decade after first slinging slices in America's midwest, Pizza Hut started taking the second part of its name seriously. Thanks to a design by architect Richard D Burke, who agreed to a $100 fee for each location that opened — a hugely lucrative deal, it turned out — everyone knows the fast-food chain's famous silhouette. From 70s, 80s and 90s childhoods in particular, that angular roof instantly brings to mind family feasts, birthday parties and all-you-can-eat pizza specials that gave Sizzler a run for its money in Australia, dessert bar included.

Brooklyn-based Aussie filmmakers Matthew Salleh and Rose Tucker, who previously made Barbecue and We Don't Deserve Dogs, are well-are of this history. In fact, they've made a documentary that's partly about it: Slice of Life: The American Dream. In Former Pizza Huts. They're equally cognisant of the nostalgic feeling that old Pizza Huts bring. "I kept thinking back to the soft-serve machine. As a kid, I was just drawn to that machine. I just wanted the soft serve with the sprinkles, the coloured sprinkles on top — my Pizza Hut dream was the soft-serve machine," Tucker tells Concrete Playground, chatting about the film that'll premiere at 2024's SXSW Sydney in October.

Audiences will indeed remember their own experiences in Pizza Hut's distinctive buildings while watching Slice of Life. Craving pizza comes with the territory, too. Salleh and Tucker haven't tucked into Pizza Hut while making the movie, purely "because they're not in New York", Salleh advises, but they still understand the urge. "Occasionally we're editing and we'll see shots of pizzas, and I'll be like 'we need pizza'. Luckily, living in Brooklyn, you only have to walk about 150 metres to find some pretty awesome pizza. So if anything, it's just made me eat a lot more pizza in New York," he continues.

Recalling times gone by for a global chain is just one of this doco's ingredients, however. Consider it a topping; at its heart, this film's main focus is right there in its title. While they weave in the Pizza Hut origin story, and that of those huts known around the planet, Salleh and Tucker are interested in how such immediately recognisable structures have lived on in new guises in the US once the brand left plenty of those buildings. Be it a Texan karaoke bar, a LGBTQIA+ church in Florida or a cannabis dispensary in Colorado, what made-over former Pizza Huts say about the pursuit of the American dream today is also as pivotal to their documentary as dough is to the world's most-beloved Italian dish.

The pair boast a tried-and-tested approach, as their first two feature-length films also capitalised upon. Take one thing — barbecue cooking, canines, ex-Pizza Huts — then dive deep, building a portrait of what humanity's interaction with said subject explains about the world, people in general and/or a specific country. All three titles have also enjoyed a relationship with SXSW. Barbecue premiered at SXSW Austin in 2017, and was picked up by Netflix as a result. Then, We Don't Deserve Dogs was selected for the pandemic-affected US event in 2020. Now, after being one of the first films announced for this year's lineup, Slice of Life will bow at SXSW Sydney's second year.

 

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If there's a spark of familiarity to Salleh and Tucker's latest concept, that's because the Used to Be a Pizza Hut blog has also been operating in this territory. It was a helpful resource for them, with its founder Mike Neilson among their interviewees. Wondering if the duo ever thought of expanding their remit beyond US Pizza Huts, as the site covers? They've dubbed their American focus "geographical discipline". Explains Salleh: "this is our documentary version of the great American road movie, I guess. We were tempted to to make this thing global, but then we knew we'd be probably making it for the next 20 years." Adds Tucker: "we really could, they built these things all over the place."

What does having SXSW's support mean to the pair? "It's amazing. As an independent filmmaker, it's really, really tough to even get into a festival, so to do it with SXSW now three times is pretty special," says Tucker. "We're basically independent DIY, and so to be able to go to a festival that also has a little bit of a market and business side to it as well, and tries to bring those elements together is, I guess, what we try to do on a daily basis — bringing together the business of what we do and the creativity of what we do. So it's been a good fit over the years," advises Salleh.

When you hone in on a specific topic per documentary, where does inspiration come from? Also, how do you know that you're onto a winner of an idea, and then get your subjects onboard? From the way that they handle to on-the-road projects to finding their former Pizza Huts and what they learned about America while making Slice of Life, we chatted through the details with Salleh and Tucker. 

On Where Salleh and Tucker Find Inspiration

Rose: "I guess you could say we're just chronic people-watchers, and we're just interested in things that people get passionate about. So with Barbecue, that one's a fairly obvious one: people get really fired up about cooking and gathering with their family. There's a little bit of patriotism involved in that as well — everyone thinks they have the best barbecue — so it's a thing that gets people talking and gets people passionate.

And similarly with dogs. People love their dogs and that's a global phenomenon."

Matthew: "We have a scribble board of hundreds of ideas, and it's a survival of the fittest. It's when we can see that an idea will play out in a in a whole film, rather than be a short or something like that. 

I often say there's a taxi or Uber driver test, where an Uber driver will ask what you do for a living and you explain the film you're making, and they go 'ohh you have to go interview my best friend' — or if they know someone or if they can tell their passionate story.

It was a similar thing with this new film, we would talk about it with people and they go 'ohh back in my town, the old Pizza Hut used to be ...'. There was either nostalgic remembrance of what it used to be or 'ohh now it's a mattress store', 'now it's a Hertz car rental' or any sort of interesting thing.

So it seems to have really gotten people interested in talking passionately. And it's interesting as well, because there's a lot going around at the moment with people re-examining pop culture nostalgia and stuff like that.

But then it just presented this amazing opportunity for us where we were actually able to go 'well, here's something pop culture and nostalgic, but it still exists in this strange way now'. So it was a way that we could combine the nostalgic memories of old Pizza Huts with this entrepreneurial spirit of people starting up businesses potentially in buildings they never thought they would, but making it work somehow."

 

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Rose: "There's this idea of community that flows through these buildings. So when they're a Pizza Hut, they're a community hub. And it would be a really big deal if your small town got a Pizza Hut. It was a big, big deal. Then when they close down, that hub goes away.

But now they're sprouting up again in these second, third, fourth, fifth lives, and those places are now similarly hubs for the community. They're the places that we were really focusing on trying to find — those places that still are that gathering point, or that third place that that people are drawn to and want to spend time with people in."

Matthew: "And in a world where those sort of places are dying away, making this film coming out of the pandemic, where we had to eliminate that third place, those gathering places in the community‚ and even the fact that a lot of these businesses survived through some of those tougher times so that they can flourish now — that was very much part of our mind when we were making this. It's places where people can just get together, whether it's a church or whether it's a restaurant …"

Rose: "Or a karaoke bar."

Matthew: "… and just be part of their community."

On Finding Slice of Life's Old Pizza Huts in Small Towns Across America Where Having the Chain in Town Was Originally a Source of Pride

 Rose: "We were actively seeking small towns. The most-rural town we visited is Walsenburg, Colorado — and that is in the middle of the country, small town, and it was a big deal.

From memory, I think that the only other fast food they currently have is a Subway."

Matthew: "Much less romantic."

Rose: "But it was a huge deal to get this big building, this big Pizza Hut, that was right on the edge of town — it was a massive deal. And it was where all the sports teams would go on the weekend after finishing their game, it's where kids would go after their prom for their after party. Like, this was the place."

 

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Matthew: "And I think it was this idea that the town over didn't get the Pizza Hut — we got the Pizza Hut. 

We're all very hip and cosmopolitan now, we might almost chuckle a little at a chain store having meaning, something important to a community — but back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, when towns, especially towns across America, were trying to grow and trying to be something, these were the test of having made it, as it were. So that seemed to be a big part of it.

And then there's also a practical consideration, because we basically had to become world experts in these old Pizza Hut buildings — and they survive more in small towns, because I think the ones that were in big cities have just gotten levelled with the passage of time."

Rose: "Or they were never built in the first place. This is a building that worked in suburbia and out on the highways.  I don't think there were any traditional Pizza Hut buildings built within New York City, where we live at the moment. So you're not going to find one here. But you go out a little bit, you go down into Long Island, suddenly they start popping up."

On Salleh and Tucker's Two-Person Approach to Filmmaking

Matthew: "The main thing is the incredibly small footprint. It's basically just myself and Rose, and we do pretty much the whole movie. So I direct and Rose produces. I do the shoot. I do the cinematography. Rose does the sound. We both edit it. We do a surround-sound mix and picture work on the film in our one bedroom apartment."

Rose: "In the room we're sitting at now."

Matthew: "We just basically do the whole film from a technical point of view by ourselves. And, one, it makes it cheaper and more versatile — but the most-important thing is that versatility in that we don't need to have bosses that we get approval from when we come up with an idea, and we can just stay in a place until we get the story, and we can move around and be this very intimate film crew.

When we film, it's not this giant truck with 20 people turning up. It's me and Rose and a backpack. And that familiarity that people have with us it just gives a gives our film something else, I hope."

On How Having Such a Small Filmmaking Footprint Helps Get Subjects Onboard

Rose: "We love the intimacy that we can create with it just being the two of us. The fact that we're a couple as well, I think a lot of the people we're working with, a lot of people running these businesses are little husband wife teams as well.

So there's definitely a connection that we just have. We run our own business. We understand the challenges of running a small business, and we like to think we're quite entrepreneurial as well. I think we have a lot in common with the people who we are filming with."

 

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Matthew: "When you run your own business, when you want to be sustainable and have your arts career that works as a business, you have to know as much about cinematography as you do about filing tax returns.

We met with a lot of people that had a passionate thing they wanted. I think instantly of Ed running Big Ed's BBQ, who had this passion for barbecue and then instantly realised he was in over his head — and that very much resonated with me as a person that got way in over my head when I decided to start a film company however many years ago.

That part of the storytelling also reminds me of my dad, who started his own business after working in government for many years. I think everyone that knows someone that's an entrepreneur, a sort of self-starter, it's a sort of crazy type of person. It was a lot of fun to hear those stories."

Rose: "But we definitely had to win people over. And we'd always have a few conversations over the phone before we turn up with cameras and really explain what we were trying to do. I think particularly in this day and age, people can be a little hesitant with documentary, like 'ohh, are you making fun of me or is this a hit piece?'.  And we would have to assure people that was not the case."

Matthew: "Something we weren't sure about: people operate their businesses and lives out of these former Pizza Huts, and it's kind of a humorous concept. I'm like 'do they think it's humorous as well?'. And they certainly did.

I remember our first phone call with everybody from the church in Boynton Beach that we filmed, and the first thing they wanted to tell us is that they'd given themselves a nickname of the Church of the Pepperoni. They think it's very funny as well.

There's something about that sense of humour, it's a little wry smile when they know that they run out of an old Pizza Hut. But then you go beneath that and you go look through the window, effectively, and there's these amazing lives, and these really powerful and interesting people.

 

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I would say that with a lot of pop culture and nostalgia, people try to remember the old thing. But for us to be able to actually go into those buildings, it was fascinating that you have a really diverse set of people — and America's an incredibly diverse country — and all of these people had one thing in common: the floor plan of their businesses were exactly the same. And it was kind of odd.

A few months into filming, we'd be walking into like the fifth Pizza Hut and there'd be this weird déjà vu that would kick in — and I'd be like 'ohh, in Colorado, they put the door over that side, but I see you guys put it over here'. And there's this one bit where some of the old Pizza Huts, they always leak in the same spot — and they all go 'oh yeah, the leak'.

Maybe there's something comforting in knowing that people around the world might have a common experience with you, even though you will never meet them. So that was very powerful for us."

On the Research Process and Criteria for Picking the Former Pizza Huts Featured

Matthew: "There were a couple that we'd heard about. You start Googling, and lots of people have documented a lot of these old buildings. But only the building. It was hard to know anything more about it.

So we'd start with that process — it just started with conversations."

Rose: "I would dive in and take a look at a business. You can tell a lot from their social media and things like that. You can tell when a place is a community hub, and they were the places we were looking for. And honestly, I would just shoot them a message or an email, and get on the phone and chat.

I remember we called the owner of the Bud Hut in Colorado, and we talked to her for I think two hours. She was just so clearly so passionate and cared so much about her community, and we were like, 'well, that's an instant yes'."

Matthew: "This is something that we've always believed as a core part of the films we make, that everyone's got an interesting story to tell. So in a way, I wasn't even really worried, because I'm like 'well, everyone's got an interesting story to tell'. Our job is to listen and find those stories.

We try not to have too many preconceptions. We had ideas — as soon as we heard that there was a church down in Florida, we're like 'well that sounds amazing'. So there's ones like that.

One of the interesting ones was Taco Jesús, a Taco restaurant in in Lynchburg, Virgina — not necessarily a place known for its Mexican cuisine. But funnily, that restaurant didn't even exist when we started shooting the movie. We only shot that a few months ago because we were looking back over some notes, and one of them was something that was closed down."

 

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Rose: "I have a list of addresses and every few months I would sweep through them just to see if a new place had popped up. I was looking at this place in Lynchburg, Virginia, which, after it was a Pizza Hut, it was a another pizza restaurant — and I noticed they were permanently closed. And I was like 'that's interesting, I wonder who's going in there?'. I did a little online research and realised it was going to be this brand-new taco restaurant, and it looked beautiful."

Matthew: "I think we saw a story that Jesús and his father-in-law were running it together, and I'm like 'there's a story that'. Then just your journalistic instincts kick in and you go 'oh, there's something interesting there'.

I think, to be honest, as we spoke to people, it confirmed more than anything that all these are really fascinating stories that we have to capture."

Rose: "There'll always be a few on the wishlist that we didn't get to, mainly just because we felt like we had a complete film. But there's always be the long list of places that maybe we could have visited — like there is a funeral home in Texas which would have been pretty interesting."

Matthew: "There's actually two."

Rose: "We could've kept filming forever."

 

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Matthew: "It's interesting when we talk about when you're completely independent and you've got to do it yourself, how do you get started — but how do you finish? That's almost as much the challenging question and it's usually, with us, through exhaustion. Usually it's desperately editing into the night.

I remember with We Don't Deserve Dogs and a little bit with this film, you just stop eventually and go 'I think the movie is finished'. And you almost don't want to admit it's finished, because then you've got to work out what to do next. You've got to distribute and market the film, and all the rest of it.

But this one was definitely one where we had a lot of the film down, and then we took a bit of a break. Then we went and filmed with Taco Jesús, and we just slotted that in."

Rose: "It was the missing thing."

Matthew: "It was the different side of the story that brought it all together. So it's nice, it's been a lot of fun, because at the moment we're doing all the technical stuff, the sound and the music and all of that, and it's really lovely to be able polish up this thing that we've been putting together for a few years now."

On What You Learn About the US Today on a Cross-Country Road Trip That Examines How an Incredibly Nostalgic Symbol Has Been Reborn

Rose: "I think we managed to capture a pretty hopeful version of humanity. I'd like to think that. I think you realise that if you watch the news a lot …"

Matthew: "Which we all do."

Rose: "… which everybody does, there's maybe an impression of America and what middle America is like, and I think we wanted to challenge that expectation a little bit. There definitely are, I think, more good people than bad everywhere we went. We were met with open arms in communities of all shapes and sizes and political persuasions."

 

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Matthew: "And we're just a bunch of hipsters from New York, so they should be very guarded.

But no, to be serious, I think it's this thing where we came in to listen and hear their story, and so we didn't come in with this ulterior motive of 'we want to set up the story'. That's been a really important thing about the films we do. We film with multiple subjects, multiple locations and people, and we don't have this scribbled-out script that we want to fit. We go where the story takes us. If the story revealed a much angrier America, then we would have gone 'okay, well, what is that story?'.

But for us, everyone was quite hopeful, quite proud — quite proud of being American, quite proud of their entrepreneurial side — which, by focusing just on that, was really interesting. We had this criteria for this movie: we want to meet people from all across America, but they have to be operating out of an old Pizza Hut restaurant. That limits you a little bit, and yet we found such diversity, such different people, different opinions, different lives, different stories.

So it was nice, even with such limitations on your sample size, you can still find a very diverse America."

 

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Rose: "I think Mark from the Yupp's Karaoke in Fort Worth, Texas, puts it best: 'our diversity is our strength'. And this is coming from a bartender in Fort Worth, Texas. It's pretty beautiful stuff. "

Matthew: "I must admit that Yupp's Karaoke Bar was a lot of fun to film."

Rose: "It was raging on a Tuesday night. It was just packed. And from what I understand, they now have lines on Saturdays — you can't get in. They are going absolute gangbusters."

Slice of Life: The American Dream. In Former Pizza Huts. premieres at SXSW Sydney 2024, which runs from Monday, October 14–Sunday, October 20 at various Sydney venues. Head to the SXSW Sydney website for further details.