Giving an Iconic Rivalry a New Beginning While Honouring the Past: Dario Scardapane and Sana Amanat Chat 'Daredevil: Born Again'

When Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox, Kin) and Wilson Fisk (Vincent D'Onofrio, Dumb Money) first sit face to face in the debut episode of Daredevil: Born Again's initial season, they do something that neither has ever been fond of with the other: agree. Daredevil and Kingpin are no more, they both confirm, under threats going both ways should that statement ever stop proving accurate on either's part. Murdock has his legal career to focus on. Fisk is running for mayor of New York City. Murdock will hold Fisk to account, though, if he's anything but above board in his new role running the Big Apple — and Fisk, campaigning with a strong anti-vigilante message, will respond if Murdock slips into Daredevil's red costume again.

Murdock and Fisk are back. With the characters dating back more than half a century, so is one of the comic-book realm's greatest rivalries. It's been a decade since the first streaming series to follow their battle on the small screen premiered and also seven years since it wrapped up, with Netflix's Daredevil spanning three seasons from 2015–2018. While that show wasn't part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, its successor definitely is. Joining Disney+'s small-screen catalogue after WandaVision, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, two seasons of Loki, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Secret Invasion, Echo and Agatha All Along, Daredevil: Born Again is a new beginning for its namesake and his nemesis, then, but it also honours its television past. Grey areas not only come with the territory in this fierce feud — they aptly apply to its latest TV date. Consider this a fresh start, yes, as well as a sequel.

The MCU has been working towards bringing Daredevil and Kingpin's friction into the fold for a few years now, officially announcing Daredevil: Born Again in 2022 much to the delight of fans, then beginning to put that plan into action elsewhere across the franchise. So, viewers have already seen Murdock in Spider-Man: No Way Home and She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Fisk in Hawkeye, and both in Echo. As those appearances have been popping up and piling up, giving the pair their own series again has journeyed along a winding path due to a creative overhaul partway through. Consider Daredevil: Born Again a show with history, too, in multiple ways in front of and behind the camera.

Boasting a connection with Marvel's small-screen tales at Netflix courtesy of The Punisher (which sat alongside not just Daredevil, but Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and The Defenders), screenwriter and TV producer Dario Scardapane joined Daredevil: Born Again during that shake-up, taking over the reins as showrunner. One of his key tasks: finding the right balance between continuing the story of the Netflix show and taking this new chapter for Murdock and Fisk in its own direction. He was certain that moving forward couldn't mean never looking backwards. He also felt strongly that two more beloved characters needed to be a part of the series. Karen Page (Deborah Ann Woll, Queen of the Ring) and Franklin 'Foggy' Nelson (Elden Henson, Killers of the Flower Moon) weren't originally featured in Daredevil: Born Again — and if that seems unthinkable, that was also the case for the Trauma, The Bridge and Jack Ryan alum now calling the shots.

Photo by Jamie McCarthy/Getty Images for Disney

Scardapane said he wouldn't take the gig without Karen and Foggy, in fact. "I'm a true Italian in form. I have a tendency to make bold statements that may or may not be 100-percent accurate," he tells Concrete Playground. "The thing is, when I went in and talked to them, those two characters had been missing from the original, the first iteration. And unfortunately, in having them referenced but not seeing them, there was something missing in terms of that bridge between seasons. And then I also think that one of the most-interesting characters in the Marvel world, that has not been given as much room to just rock, is Karen Page. I just think that's a fantastic character. I'm super interested in the relationship she has with Matt Murdock. I'm interested in that family of three that you see, and when there's a loss in the family, what happens. So it was, yeah, it was a little extreme to say 'I'm not going to take it unless I get to do this', but it seemed that it was absolutely integral to telling the tale and bringing us into this new version."

"And we wanted to do it," notes Sana Amanat, one of Daredevil: Born Again's executive producer — and not only an MCU veteran thanks to Ms Marvel, but a comic-book editor who co-created Kamala Khan on the page. "I think we realised it as we were watching the material. We're like 'this feels like there's something missing'. The heart of the show was missing, and we were all just very simpatico," she advises. "Dario has this phrase, he says 'yes, and' a lot, which I love — because it makes for such a rich collaboration. We wanted the same thing for this project — very much so," Amanat continues. Adds Scardapane: "and it was funny, I think I wasn't there, but I think probably in that, when you had the opportunity to kind of stop, slow down and take a look, it must have felt like 'oh, somebody's missing'. Like there's an X-factor there."

As Daredevil: Born Again's nine-episode first season keeps establishing, Daredevil's past ties couldn't remain more crucial to the series, even in a narrative that sees Murdock confront a new future — and, in what proves an engrossing character study not just of its eponymous figure but of his main adversary, in a show that faces the similarities between Daredevil and Kingpin, and how those commonalities drive their obsessions with each other regardless of whether either will admit it. We also chatted with Scardapane and Amanat about that dynamic, as well as how crucial Cox and D'Onofrio are individually and together, knowing what to build upon from Netflix's Daredevil, how working on The Punisher and Ms Marvel helped them prepare for Daredevil: Born Again, and more.

On Finding the Right Balance Between Continuing the Story of the Netflix Show and Shaking Things Up

Sana: "I think it was quite important, first of all, for us to pay respect to the material that was there before. We really believed in it and we really loved it. The challenge for us was making sure that it was familiar, yet it was charting a new course. We didn't want people to feel like they needed to watch everything — they needed to be able to step in at the first episode and know everything that you needed to know.

And I have to say, really a lot of credit to obviously Dario and our writing team, and Justin and Aaron [directors Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead, who also worked on Moon Knight and Loki], who told us everything you needed to know in those first 15 to 20 minutes.

I think also visually, stylistically, again there is a lot of references pulled from the old show, but we tried to do something new and fresh also to make sure that New York felt real, and that there was also stylistic pops that took into account his sensory experience — Matt Murdock as someone who is blind with heightened senses.

So that combination, I think, really made it feel like a Daredevil that was in its new course and new chapter, and hopefully it feels exciting and thrilling and bold for folks coming in. We hope that you guys really see the love that we put into it."

Dario: "And then when I came in and saw what they had, it was like 'this stuff is really, really, really cool'."

Sana: "Yeah."

Dario: "But it needs a bridge. It needs something that takes you from the past, from the end of the Netflix show, into what we're doing now. And that was really a large portion of the job, in terms of giving audiences, — and fans like myself of the old show — a touchstone, and then taking them somewhere new."

On How Crucial Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio Are — Not Just as Daredevil and Kingpin Individually, But in Bringing That Rivalry to the Screen Together

Sana: "They're so absolutely pivotal. I feel like they are these mythological figures. They are larger than life. When you see them step on set as Daredevil and as Kingpin, you see the presence that Charlie and Vincent have and what they bring to these roles.

So there's no other question for me — I mean, those are those characters. And that diner scene in itself, at the opening of 101, said everything that you needed to know about the entire series, about their prowess as actors — and through Dario's incredible writing, and Justin and Aaron's great, great directing. It's just an amazing combination."

Dario: "And you were right when you say that the two of them together are more than the sum of their parts."

Sana: "Yeah."

Dario: "And that's what's so fun about working with and writing for two characters that have such a rich history. There's the history that the characters in the comic book have. Then there's the history that that Charlie and Vincent have, having done this now for about ten years.

So when you get in a room to do a scene or write a scene for them, you have the weight and the joy of all that history, and these two actors who know it so well."

Sana: "Yeah, it feels like the years of storytelling is building to an intense character drama about these two characters — and honestly, how similar they are. They might be different, but they're pretty similar, too."

On Daredevil: Born Again Being a Character Study That Highlights the Commonalities Between Daredevil and Kingpin — and Why That Makes Them So Obsessed with Each Other

Dario: "They're both carrying duality. That's what's funny. You have a character or person that is Matt Murdock and Daredevil. You have a person that is Kingpin and Fisk. And those are constantly interacting and constantly bouncing into each other, and bringing out the worst in each other at times.

And this whole saga, for lack of a better word, this is what it's all about: this dance, this fight between Kingpin and Daredevil. What are the ripple effects it has into the world? What are what these two people's obsessive need to bang heads? What does it mean for everybody and everything in a city around them?"

Sana and Dario, in unison: "It's hard to come to terms with your violent nature."

Sana: "Truly, they both have a very complicated and similar relationship to violence, and that is something that is really intriguing to show."

On Deciding Which Elements to Continue From the Netflix Series — and Where to Stand Apart

Dario: "It's really funny — that's a great question, and there's kind of a litmus test for all of it. There's so many people. We're all bringing everything we can to being custodians of this character. When something's right, you literally feel it. And when something's off, you feel it.

So in the same way, if I write something for Vincent that just doesn't feel right, he's like: 'hold on, try this'. And when we build a storyline that just doesn't feel on-story — we discarded a few for season two that just didn't feel like what we wanted to do. And the thing is, is that we've taken almost everything that was started over the course of those three seasons, because there's so much in those three seasons, and we've just put it into a context of seven, eight years later and a bigger conflict because Fisk is now, he's the system."

Sana: "There's also just us as fans being like 'oh my god, we love this from the old show."

Dario: "Gotta do it. Gotta do it."

Sana: "We've got to do it. So that's our litmus test. Like Bullseye — you know, we love Bullseye."

Dario: "You were like, very early on 'so, we've got to do a oner'. I was like 'yes, we do'.

There was no, especially with the two of us, there's very little like 'oh, no, that's not the show'."

Sana: "100 percent. We're usually on the same page, which is awesome."

Dario: "Yeah."

On What Scardapane Learned From Making The Punisher and Amanat From Ms Marvel That Helped with Daredevil: Born Again

Dario: "Now wouldn't that be a team-up."

Sana: "Oh my god, that'd be awesome. It's like The Last of Us — but yeah."

Dario: "You go first."

Photo by Jamie McCarthy/Getty Images for Disney

Sana: "What did I draw on for this? I mean, ultimately the biggest thing for me — obviously the joy of filmmaking and creating and storytelling is just unmatched, and for me, I've been lucky enough to do it at Marvel for so long.

It is about the people that you work with, making sure that they feel heard, that they feel like they're bringing their best — and that we're all creating the same thing together, we're all collectively building just this beautiful tapestry of a very hopefully powerful story. And to me that's the same in any genre that you work on.

And if you're lucky enough to work with such great collaborators who can help you bring this vision to life, my job really is to help draw the best out of everyone we're working with to be able to tell the best story that we possibly can. And that is the delight, the delight of my job."

Photo by Jamie McCarthy/Getty Images for Disney

Dario: "The takeaway from The Punisher for me, really — and I will say I had two, for lack of a better word, two great teachers on that job in Jon Bernthal and Steve Lightfoot — was you're writing something that is incredibly dark, incredibly gritty and incredibly violent, but you're always trying to find the humanity inside it.

And you're always — when you watch some of Steve's writing, and when you watch some of Jon, what he does with the character — you're always trying to find the heart. And I definitely brought that as best I can to Daredevil.

In and amongst all the punching and broken bones and mayhem, you want to find the heart and soul of these characters. You want to really feel."

Daredevil: Born Again streams via Disney+.

Daredevil: Born Again stills: Giovanni Rufino, courtesy of Marvel Television. © 2024 MARVEL.