When Australia's Past Haunts Its Present On- and Off-Screen: Shari Sebbens, Meyne Wyatt and Jon Bell Chat 'The Moogai'

Australia should've given rise to The Moogai before 2024, and prior to the SXSW Midnight Shorts Grand Jury Award-winning short of the same name four years earlier as well. An Aussie horror film born out of the Stolen Generations where the monsters of colonisation, White Australia policies and attitudes since remain inescapable, and where Indigenous children today are also snatched away by a literal monster, is a brilliant idea — one that instantly feels as if it needed to have been made decades back. But writer/director Jon Bell and his stars Shari Sebbens and Meyne Wyatt appreciate how deeply that this is a movie for now. Indeed, The Moogai doesn't just explore the direct ramifications of the Stolen Generations; it proves as clear-eyed about the reality for First Nations Australians today.

This is not the only recent Australian film to grapple with the nation's past. Sweet Country, The Nightingale, The Drover's Wife The Legend of Molly Johnson, The New Boy, The Furnace and High Ground have all stepped into the same terrain. The Mystery Road franchise, including the initial movie's big-screen sequel Goldstone and then three seasons of TV, feels the echoes that the country's history has now and, when the saga jumps backwards, not that long ago. Making his first feature after creating The Gods of Wheat Street, developing Cleverman, and also penning episodes of Redfern Now, Black Comedy, Mystery Road and more, Bell was sparked by the inhumanity of taking children away from their parents — not only when forced child removals were the abhorrent policy in Australia, but as the trauma from that practice remains a presence.

The Moogai begins on the Red River Aborigines Mission in 1969, where two sisters (debutants Aisha Alma May and Precious Ann) attempt to avoid being separated from their family by white men, only for one to be spirited away instead by the picture's namesake. When it jumps to half a century later, the film spends its time with Indigenous couple Sarah (Sebbens, The Office) and Fergus (Wyatt, Strife). A lawyer and a carpenter, and parents to six-year-old Chloe (newcomer Jahdeana Mary) with a new baby on the way, they each possess different ties to their heritage. Sarah was taken from her birth mother Ruth (Tessa Rose, Firebite) not long after her first breath, then adopted by white parents (While the Men Are Away's Tara Morice and Plum's Nicholas Cassim). Newly reconnected with the woman that gave her life, she's cautious, while Fergus heartily welcomes his mother-in-law. 

When the Moogai enters Sarah and Fergus' lives, Sarah's fears of the malevolent force impact her every moment. Her agitated state is dismissed by doctors, however, who think that she's simply struggling after a difficult birth. Painting anything but the portrait of a perfect family also immediately earns attention from anyone watching on, medical professionals, Chloe's teachers and the police included. Alongside Australia's history that constantly demands confronting, Bell was inspired by his and his wife's anxieties when his grandchildren were born, knowing how quickly that judgements can be made in a hospital situation.

Australia's past haunts its present on- and off-screen, then, in this powerful picture — a movie that was labelled "Australia's Get Out" when it made its world premiere at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival, ahead of charting the Aussie fest circuit, then hitting local cinemas in general release on Halloween. "It is a good comparison, because Jordan Peele, through his sketch-comedy career, too, the amount of story you have generate to be able to do that sort of stuff — no wonder Get Out was such a success and so on-point," Bell tells Concrete Playground. "And so in those terms, that's a good touchstone for us, because we're certainly trying to bridge those same audiences: people who are going to come see something, and see that it's got something to say, but it's also going to give you the genre stuff that you need. There's scares in this, but it's not grotesque and gruesome. There are also some laughs in there, which Get Out has as well. And I think there's a message in there, too, and there's a lot of heart."

"I think as an artist, I don't particularly love comparisons in that way, but I absolutely understand why they're useful for audiences and for people to grasp onto something and have a quick point of reference," notes Sebbens, who also starred in the short alongside Wyatt. "But I will say it's a valid comparison and that it's Jon very much writing from a place of culture, very much writing from a place of Blackness — and employing elements of comedy. I wouldn't call this a comedy-horror by any means, but it is a psychological horror with just moments of comedy peppered throughout, and I totally understand why it reminds people of something like Jordan Peele's Get Out. Also, I'm like, man, if you're going to be compared to any director, that's the one," she tells us.

Wyatt advises that he's excited about "what indigenous people will think about the film here in Australia, particularly, because I think it's a film for them in a lot of ways." He continues: "Aboriginal people love horror films, and there's a lot of humour in there as well. And I think there's something that you can claim and take ownership of, being that Jon is the writer and the director, Mitchell Stanley's the producer, Shari and I are acting, and Tessa Rose. It's got a cast of Indigenous filmmakers, this is one of our stories that we can tell and it has been authored by First Nations people."

We also chatted with Bell, Sebbens and Wyatt about the fact that the film's premise feels like it should've been explored before, their journey with The Moogai from short to feature and ensuring that it comments on today's reality as much as the past — and more.

On How Writing the Short as Proof of Concept for the Feature Helped Shape The Moogai

Jon: "It's a good process to go through. I'd encourage anybody to do that, because trying to tell your story in different lengths really highlights structure in a lot of ways. It also gives the feature, if there's any flab, that will get cut off. Because with the short, you're so focused on everything having to earn its place because you've got very little time.

And then with the feature, I think this is certainly under 90 minutes — I think it might be 86 or 87. And in trying to get that narrative drive, the script at a certain point, I think it might have got up to 114 pages, and then I cut it down before we started shooting. Then we just cut, cut, cut to try and get narrative pace, because these days people don't give too much time to anything. It's not even change the channel, they can just click off so easily.

So you've got to get an audience and you've got to keep them. And writing the two lengths brought some of those issues into sharp focus."

On Sebbens and Wyatt Both Starring in the Short as Well as the Feature — and How the Former Helped Them Prepare for the Latter

Shari: "Definitely as an actor, you secretly hope, but it's also so completely out of your control. And I know that that's something that Meyne and I'm just so thankful for, is a chance to come back and play in the feature. Because it's really rare, actually, that actors get to be involved in the proof of concept in the short and then make it to the big screen.

So it's definitely a hope that we were holding out on. But you can't ever say it out loud. I don't know, you probably can say it out loud — there probably are actors that go 'I want to be in this'. But I guess there's also an element of still being blackfullas, we're a bit ashamed to do that stuff. But it was definitely something we both really wanted. And when it came about, we were just over the moon. It's a dream come true to get to follow the story from that concept size all the way to its full fruition.

Meyne: "For me, if it was offered to me, I was always going to go from the short to the feature. But I don't know how Jon feels about it or the production house.

What was in the short was a good encapsulation of the feel of what the feature is and where the film gets to go. And I think I certainly jumped at the opportunity to be a part of the feature because I feel like Fergus, in particular, had been fleshed out in a very nuanced and interesting, juicy role that had come to life in the feature.

So I was always excited to be involved. And I think that the short is probably a different film to the feature in some ways. One gives you the feeling and then the next, I think they're telling a different story. And I think that's a good thing. You're able to explore something in the feature that in short-form storytelling you won't be able to, and that was always an exciting thing to jump into."

Shari: "I think the biggest thing was I've never done genre before. I've never done horror before as a as a genre specifically. So it was a great exercise in knowing the mental and emotional stamina it takes to maintain a taught psychological wire for an extended period of time, but still look after yourself, and still be able to exit and enter a process every day as an artist. 

It also just meant that we had a really great understanding of how to work with Jon, what he wanted to say and what he wanted to do. We had a shorthand with him, which was really useful for us on set."

On How the Concept for the Film Came About for Bell

Jon: "Part of the initial inception, the first time I had some of those ideas was when my oldest grandson, he's a teenager now, but when he was born, me and my missus throughout all of our grandkids, when they were born we were nervous about hospitals making a judgement — as we've worked with DoCs trying to reunite families. We had seen how easily from the government's point of view reports and judgments could be made. And then we also had our own experiences, our own family experiences with close calls, and I had an uncle who was part of Stolen Generations and stuff. So we had some personal experience.

But when the grandkids came along, that was another thing that brought it into sharp contrast again, because one would think that we were past this in our history, but the fear that was inside us and the way, not anxiety, but the way we were just on our toes — we were on our toes the night before, for perceptions and judgments. We were just very aware of that stuff, and we didn't want any of our grandkids to be in the system. As soon as you're in the system, then another government department pulls something up and then bam, all the stuff comes up.

So we were super watchful. In a lot of ways, that was probably the initial idea. That fear just followed us. It didn't matter how many generations deep we were, this fear just followed us."

On The Moogai's Premise Instantly Standing Out 

Shari: "I say this a lot, but I came across Jon's writing in 2012 when we did The Gods of Wheat Street together, and I was like 'oh my god, who is this person writing such rich, incredible tapestry of black lives and family on screen, and on top of that, black women?'. I was convinced that a woman had written The Gods of Wheat Street, actually. And so when I found out it was a man, I was like 'what? This brotherboy's got such a beautiful respect and understanding of women'.

And so when I came across that Jon was doing a horror, and he had such great ambition and vision for it — I've trusted this man and admired this man's work for years, of course I want to be a part of that.

He's someone that pushes his boundaries and his own abilities, and what he thinks he's capable of himself, so I knew that this was going to be an ambitious project and actually be — I think I'm safe in saying this — the first Aboriginal-produced directed horror film, and will stand as the first in what I hope is a long line, a huge canon of horror works to come from First Nations artists.

But just the fact that it was Jon who had written it is what absolutely drew me to it in the first place. And we're very close with Mitchell Stanley, one of the co-producers as well. So it felt immediately that there was a group of Black people that wanted to reach and try something new that traditionally we've been kept out of. 

Because yeah, people love gritty Indigenous drama in this country, like contemporary gritty indigenous drama, and that has a place, absolutely, to speak to who we are here and now as a nation. But there's no reason why we shouldn't get to play with form and genre and style as well, like every other artist."

Meyne: "One, it's a genre film, so that was always exciting. And I think that's a rare opportunity to in Australia, I think, to be involved — and particularly a First Nations genre film, a horror, psychological thriller. That was always exciting.

I think what Jon's able to do is Trojan horse this social commentary. You think it's one thing and then there's something else going on entirely. I think going away with the audience, coming up with their interpretation of what's going on, and showing people rather than knocking them on their head — it's allowing you to go away and have those conversations with the people that you go 'what about that bit?'.

I feel like those are always the films that I enjoy and I'm entertained by, so I always wanted to be a part of a film that allowed for that opportunity.

And in the same token when you talk about Get Out, those social thrillers, horrors, it's in the social consciousness at the moment, and they are all touching on something that's saying two things at once. And I think in an Australian context, I feel like this is the right time to do it.

Like you were saying before that it should have been a film that had been made — but I don't think it would have been made until Jon, a First Nations writer/director, could make that film. That was always an exciting thing to have the privilege to be involved in."

On Whether There's a Sense of Responsibility in Making a First Nations Film That Treads New Ground

Shari: "Oh big time. Yeah, it's something that, to be honest, it's something that you're all-too-keenly aware of every time you're taking on a role as an Aboriginal actor, because you're so aware that no matter what you do, you are seen to be representing your entire people. And it's an impossible weight and an impossible job. You can't represent every blackfulla.

So I think in terms of Jon and Meyne and Mitchell, all the Aboriginal creatives around it, it's a responsibility and a weight that we were all familiar with. It wasn't a new experience to us to feel that.

But I think you turn that fear into excitement, and you turn that into a challenge, and you turn that into 'well, how can we keep pushing boundaries and showing people that not one person can be responsible for an entire race of people and a representation of entire people, but that a group of us working together will bring complexity and nuance that is so often afforded to non-Indigenous stories and artists?'."

On the Importance of the Movie's Connection Between Past and Present

Jon: "That was one of the things that was very important to me. After Kevin Rudd made his apologies, it feels like that people are just being like 'okay, well he said sorry, can we just move on now?'. No. People are still living with this pain. And those kinds of White Australia policies, they are, probably under the United Nations definition, they are in fact genocide. Those are genocidal practices.

Just trying to wrap your head around that, that's of vital importance. But at the same time, I think that this film is very much a horror film, and the horror or fear that plagues your family can absolutely be a universal thing. We've all got stuff in our past —that saying 'you don't grow out of your childhood, you escape it' — we've all got stuff that we're probably hanging on to, all of the things that have affected us. So in that sense, it's very much a universal story. You could say that the Moogai for someone else means a different thing. But in terms of where I was coming from, it was absolutely there."

Shari: "I think there's no way to tell it without that, without being truthful to what the reality is for us mob, for our families, for our communities. I think there would have been absolutely — I'm just spitballing and projecting onto Jon — but I imagine for a writer/director, there are moments where it's like 'well, yeah, how much do I delve into Fergus' moment with the police?'.

I think for Jon, I imagine it's what I feel, which is if your projects don't have an element of reality in them — I guess that's the scariest thing about the horror, is that the reality and the history and the current situation for so many Black people is far scarier than what you can put on-screen ever. But I think he would probably feel a bit inauthentic if that scene with Fergus and the police wasn't in there, just because that's Jon's experience as a Black man. It's Meyne's experience as a Black man. It's so many people's experience as Black people in this country.

It's not saying that you have to always put these things in there as a political statement, but actually the personal is political in that way. So what they're really doing — what we're all doing — is just trying to recount things in an authentic, genuine way to get people to understand what the hell is still happening here."

On Sebbens Playing Someone Who Is Devoted to Her Family, But Also Cautious About Her Heritage — And Navigating Coping with a New Baby While Also Certain that the Moogai Is Taunting Her

Shari: "It's mad when you say it all out straight like that. It's like 'oh yes, that is a lot of things, isn't it, to happen to someone'.

Jon and I would talk a lot, Meyne and I would talk a lot, about backstory and history — and certainly for Sarah, that's on the screen. The history of her Aboriginality that she has been denied through government policy, and that she has also denied herself because of adopted ways of thinking and shame and, I guess, internalised racism. But also Sarah is someone that wants to deeply belong, which I think is why she seeks out an Aboriginal partner in Fergus.

And so in that sense, we could load ourselves up — and I did load myself up with all this history and backstory — but at the end of the day, also you just have to let it go and play what's on the page, and be present with those words and those scenes. All that work hopefully informs the weight that you bring into scenes, and it informs choices you make. But for me particularly, I was just like 'if I keep getting bogged down on this, I'm going to try and play all of those things at once'. And actually, if I just play what's on the page, it felt like the clearest way through for me."

On Wyatt Stepping Into the Role of the Worried Husband and Father Who Wants to Believe Sarah, But Is Also Concerned with How She's Coping

Meyne: "I think Fergus is, at one point, he should be the perspective of the audience. And you should be concerned and worried about what's going on with Sarah. There's a fine balance with him that he has to believe her, but then there has to be that skepticism. And I think he makes some decisions that are questionable and maybe problematic, but I think that's nuanced character. 

With Jon, there were conversations about trying to find that balance with Fergus and making sure that he's being supportive, but also touching on the trope of being the husband that isn't quite believing the wife — and as a horror film, making sure you're ticking off those boxes and those touchstones, but making sure that he isn't a complete arsehole and that it's coming from a real place, and this is a real person and it's nuanced. 

And someone who possibly doesn't know how to deal with, one, a malevolent spirit, but two, mental health — and not having the tools to be able to deal with somebody. I think that can always be trying for anybody, having that for the first time, especially a loved one, because it's a delicate line you're toeing."

The Moogai released in Australian cinemas on Thursday, October 31, 2024.

Images: Elise Lockwood / Sean Ryan.