Crafting a Potent Portrait of Chasing Power Starring Sebastian Stan as Donald Trump: Ali Abbasi Chats 'The Apprentice'

When a movie premieres at the Cannes Film Festival, the literal applause it receives makes headlines. It happens every year — and at fellow major international film fests such as Berlin and Venice, too — with reports detailing the number of minutes that the audience put their hands together for while on their feet. Back in May 2024, The Apprentice was no different. While the time spent clapping varied depending on the source, this was still a story. But there was also another tale that followed swiftly after the feature's debut, as it was likely always bound to: the response from its subject to this unofficial biopic, or at least from his campaign, including a cease-and-desist letter attempting to stop anyone else from seeing it.

The Apprentice's title tells everyone the who and the why of this situation. Before he was America's 45th president, Donald Trump spent over a decade hosting the reality-TV series that shares its moniker with Ali Abbasi's new film. This isn't a chronicle of Trump's time on the show, or in the Oval Office afterwards, however. It isn't just an unsanctioned big-screen Trump biography, either.

Making his first English-language feature after 2016 Danish horror film Shelley, the Oscar-submitted 2018 Swedish standout Border and 2022's Persian-language serial-killer thriller Holy Spider, Copenhagen-based Iranian Danish filmmaker Abbasi also doesn't simply step through Trump's origin story in the 70s and 80s — although it chronicles his start in real estate, his relationship with his father and his marriage to Ivana. The movie's pitch-perfect name hones in on the most-crucial element of the picture: that this is a portrait of chasing power seen through a mentor-protege relationship. 

Trump is the apprentice. His guide: New York City attorney and political fixer Roy Cohn, who first came to fame in the 50s investigating suspected Communists with Senator Joseph McCarthy. Abbasi digs into how Cohn helped shape Trump, including the three rules of winning passed down from the former to the latter. Those tenets: first, attack, attack, attack. Then, admit nothing and deny everything. And lastly, claim victory while never ever admitting defeat. 

It's impossible to watch these rules outlined in The Apprentice — or even read them on the page — and not spot how they still dictate Trump's actions today. That's one of the film's many astute moves. Another: casting Sebastian Stan (Dumb Money), who gives one of his two phenomenal performances for 2024 alongside A Different Man, as Donald Trump. Seeing him anchor the familiar Trump mannerisms, speech patterns, talking points and attitudes — details that anyone who has even just spotted the IRL figure on the news across his political career in passing will instantly recognise — in the younger version of the man, an iteration brought to the screen with complexity, is both haunting and uncanny.

Equally exceptional: a can't-look-away Jeremy Strong in his first post-Succession part as Cohn, in another of the film's performances that demands awards attention. Borat Subsequent Moviefilm Oscar-nominee and Bodies Bodies Bodies star Maria Bakalova also leaves an impression as Ivana. And Abbasi remains one of the most-exciting directors working today in every choice that he makes throughout The Apprentice, including deploying a visual approach that scrapes away any gleam from his take on Trump at every moment.

"I think we've been quite restrained," Abbasi tells Concrete Playground about the movie, talking about the instant backlash and the complicated response he knows it will continued to receive. "If we wanted to be controversial, we have ample, ample opportunities to be so." We also chatted with the director about the quest to get the film made and seen, building a portrait of someone that everyone in the world has an opinion of, why he wanted to bring this tale to the screen, getting Stan onboard, and the importance of diving into Trump and Cohn's relationship.

On the Diverse Responses to the Film's Premiere, Including the Cannes Standing Ovation and the Trump Campaign's Reaction

Ali: "It's sort of the same in a way. What do they say, you have to grab a compliment whenever, wherever you find it, whichever way you find it, in whatever form you find it? 

I think if the Trump campaign thinks that this is the worst — they have an actually really funny formulation, they're saying this is 'pure fictionalised trash'. And I'm like, that's a very general sentence you can basically write in the beginning of every feature film. It's pure fictionalised trash — that's a punk-rock way of saying 'this is the movie'.

And look, I think we've been quite restrained. I think this is a quite a restrained movie. I do not understand where people talk about controversy, controversial. If we wanted to be controversial, we have ample, ample opportunities to be so and to do so, and include stuff. I mean, with this guy, the sky is the limit, right. And therefore it's a little bit difficult for me to understand. 

Of course, we're the underdogs in this game. We just want to get the movie released. So any help, any publicity is appreciated. I don't mind. But on the intellectual level, when people talk about this as being controversial, provocative and the Trump campaign bashing us, I'm like 'have you actually seen the movie? You know, you come out, I would say, much better than you might have'."

On Building a Complex, Three-Dimensional Portrait of Someone That Everyone in the World Has an Opinion Of

Ali: "There's this fable about this father and son, and they have this donkey and they want to go over a river or something like that. They try one way and then someone comes and says 'no, no you can't tie the donkey like that. You have to do it upside down'. And they do it upside down and they say 'no, no, it if you do it upside down, it's going to drown and die in water. You have to do it from the side'. And anyway, it ends up that the donkey goes in the water anyway and drowns.

It's a little bit like this movie. It's impossible to get that balance because everyone has an opinion about this donkey. And especially, I think, I really see this acutely in the US. Because I feel like it's impossible, almost, for the Americans — at least, for the critics — to see this as a movie.

They either hate the idea of a Trump movie or they think it's not enough — or they think there's nothing new about him that they couldn't read about. So it's a vicious cycle. It feeds itself.

And in in reality, I think the only balance that matters is the balance of three dimensionality of character and the authenticity of character. Do I deeply care if we hurt Donald Trump? No, I don't give a fuck, you know. He doesn't care. Why would I care?

But I do care about what I feel is fairness. I don't want us to either work for him or work against him. Everyone has different agendas around him and around this sort of political minefield we're living in, and I'm this one guy who actually does not have an agenda either way for against.

My agenda is a humanist agenda. I think it's interesting to investigate these people, and the time and the political apparatuses which they're part of."

On What Appealed About Bringing This Story to the Screen After Abbasi's Past Films Shelley, Border and Holy Spider

Ali: "I think what was exciting about this project was the fact that it it's not an American movie — it's about America.  And as someone who grew up in Iran, I have this really special relationship to America. I mean, Iran was an American colony until 79. And then after that, we became the archenemy and America became the great satan. And we had this very tense relationship.

I think that if you grow up in the Middle East, you have a different view of American politics. You don't really see the difference between Democrats and Republicans in the same way. The outcome is the same. The outcome would end up being a bomb on your head anyway. So I think this this sort of tension and fascination got me curious about American politics, obviously, and the American political system, and this social Darwinism that sort of runs through a lot of things in in American society — this sportifying of everything, so to speak.

Even the debates, I don't know if anyone can come up with any single substantive point from the last Trump-versus-Harris debate, but everyone was like 'who won? By what margin did they win?'.

But I think there's also something more, there is another complexity in in this story — it's not a Trump movie. It's about this very formative relationship, which Trump is obviously part of. But it's also equally about Roy Cohn, who's as colourful character and as exciting a character, and not as in plain sight as Trump is. And how through this relationship, Trump becomes the person he is.

In that way, again, it's also my chance of studying or investigating the system they're operating."

On Finding the Right Actor to Play Donald Trump — and Getting Sebastian Stan Onboard

Ali: "I think for me, casting is like 80 percent of my job. That's also why I am really, really picky and it takes very long time for me to cast my movies, because really once you cast someone, there is not a whole lot you can do about that choice on set either way.

And I meant this in a sincere way. It's not a criticism, it's not a problem, but it's something — it's a commitment, I guess. That's a good way of putting it. And that commitment was something that Sebastian definitely paid to this.

We start talking about this 2019. And then movie evolved and fell apart few times. It fell apart right after January 6, I remember, as an example of the times. And I think in a way, it is a difficult part to prepare for — not only on a technical level, not only in terms of research and all that, but also mentally.

I think I went through a version of this with Holy Spider myself. I was like, the movie itself is one thing, the consequences of making the movie is something else. So I had to mentally prepare to do Holy Spider for many years before I actually made it.

I think it's the same for Sebastian. I think maybe the one good thing that came out of all these years of waiting and rebuilding the project was he had time to mentally prepare for the fact that he is doing this person who's extremely polarising — and the aftermath, which is also going to be polarising — and it hasn't even started yet. I think we're going to see the real reactions when the movie comes out.

It's different for me. I'm an outsider to this political system, to the US. I can't say I'm an outsider to Hollywood anymore, because now I'm part of it. But I have a sort of a safety distance. If everything goes wrong, if shit hits the fan, I'm still in Copenhagen — and that's not the case for Sebastian. That's not the case for Amy [executive producer Baer, Purple Hearts] and Gabe [screenwriter Gabriel Sherman, Alaska Daily], who started the project.

These are people who are taking real risks with this. As much as I don't understand the controversiality and the risk of it, I do know that I'm not the audience. I'm not the masses — that would be seen very differently."

On The Apprentice Living Up to Its Name by Unpacking Roy Cohn's Influence on Donald Trump

Ali: "It's a little bit of a Frankenstein story in a way, like how the monster is created by the master. But in that case, I think politically speaking, I think it's very wrong to refer to Donald as a monster.

Because that would also imply that there's a monster in town and there are some other innocent people who are not. And in fact, that's really not the case. I think anything that the opponents are accusing Trump of doing, they have done themselves in some degree, one way or the other.

The argument is here is not that 'oh, there are some fine people on both sides' or everything is relative. I don't think it's relative. I think there's some stuff, like when he comes and says 'people are eating dogs', that's a despicable, stupid, racist, fascist thing to say. That's not relative. That's black and white.

But in terms of the dynamics of it, back to Roy Cohn, I think that in the movie as in reality, he had an outsized influence on how Donald became the person he is, and how he learned to navigate and pull the levers of power. And also, most importantly, maybe, how to deal with media. Once you know the rules, you can see how he's on a daily basis using those rules.

And there's something interesting about these characters, because in a way, they are pretty punk rock. Punk rock is not something you associate with the right that much — mostly anarchist leftwing, that vibe of it. But when you look at these people, they do what the fuck they want. They establish rules. They tear the rule book. They're colourful. They don't care.

And I think that maybe in terms of mentality, that was maybe also a big contribution from Roy. You know, you don't have to give a shit about people. If you say something wrong in an interview, double down, triple down, quadruple down. Who cares? Fuck them, you know?"

The Apprentice opened in cinemas Down Under on Thursday, October 11, 2024.